Brit Cult’s Mark Knox sat down with their legendary frontman Tim Burgess to talk Britpop, fashion, and who would make Tim’s own personal cool list.

Mark Knox

One thing I love about The Charlatans is that, a bit like Taylor Swift, you’ve got eras. This one feels brand new — and at a time when you could have easily done some kind of nostalgia or throwback record, it’s very forward-thinking. But I’m wondering — fourteen albums deep, what still fuels you guys?

Tim Burgess

I think it’s making good stuff — making good art — and the connection with each other. Success is part of it, but it depends what kind of success you mean. For us, success in the final result is what matters. It doesn’t always work out, but I think it really has on this one. All our albums are great, but some really stand out as full pieces of work — for me, Wonderland, Modern Nature, Tellin’ Stories, Some Friendly. They just sound amazing. That’s what we wanted this one to be — something forward-thinking, that draws on the past but is completely relevant in the present. The high bars are still there. We don’t just come in, drop our bags on the floor and say, “Right, what are we doing today?” There’s thought and choice behind it. Having Dev [Hynes] and Fred [Macpherson] onboard – and Thighpaulsandra – was really inspired. It’s a collection of minds, people who felt like kindred spirits. We could’ve just made a record, put it out, gone on tour – and there’s nothing wrong with that – but that’s not what we wanted to do.

Mark Knox

Yeah, and you mentioned Dev and Fred – what drew you to them? And did working with that generation impact your approach or sound in any way?

Tim Burgess

I actually met Fred through doing listening parties with Spector. I knew friends of his but didn’t really know him that well. Same with Dev – I’d seen him around. I actually saw him and Florence play at the Old Blue Last, back when she was Florence + the Machine – a really early incarnation of it. We got to know each other over time, and he was someone I’d been thinking about ever since we asked Tom Rowlands from The Chemical Brothers to work with us on Tellin’ Stories. That was such a great idea. Danny [Saber] did the same for Wonderland, and this felt similar — we wanted to make a record that went beyond just a good recording. We wanted someone who could bring ideas, perspective, and inspiration, so we approached Dev, and he immediately thought of Fred. Fred told us he’d had posters of The Charlatans on his bedroom wall when he was a kid. The two of them had known each other forever, so for them to come in together as a double act was amazing. The first thing we talked about was hauntology and psychogeography, which sounded great in theory, but it really came to life when we got to Rockfield. It’s one thing to throw around big words, but it’s another to feel what they mean. Once we were there, the place itself became part of the record – the atmosphere, the space, the history – all absorbed into the music. It just felt right.

Mark Knox

You mentioned other collaborators on the album – who else was involved?

Tim Burgess

Well, Thighpaulsandra was with us at Rockfield. The first time I ever heard about him was through Julian Cope, Bill Drummond, and Echo & The Bunnymen. Thighpaulsandra had been in Julian Cope’s band for a long time, and he’d also been in Coil and Spiritualized. Having him as our engineer carried real gravitas for me and for Fred — Fred’s really into Coil. So having him at the mixing desk, Dev on his shoulders, and Fred in the room — it just felt right. It was brilliant. We had the best time.

Mark Knox:

If we’re thinking back a bit before we go forward again – you guys were there before Britpop, then thrived during it, survived it, and kept evolving. Britpop’s had a bit of a comeback recently with those big Oasis and Pulp gigs. When you look back on that era, what do you think its lasting legacy is, musically or culturally?

Tim Burgess

Culturally, it was a phenomenon, and it’ll always be remembered that way. But I think some of the bands really took it further – Oasis and Pulp especially. The timing was amazing, really. We didn’t make an album just to join in – we’d been working on it for two and a half years, and suddenly the moment hit. When people ask, “Why start recording then?” – for us, it just felt like we’d had so much life happening before that point, and once we got there, it all clicked. It wasn’t strategic, we were just caught up in the timing of it all.

Mark Knox

And at the time, Oasis and Blur were kind of caricatured – they fit neat boxes. The Charlatans always seemed like the cooler outsiders. Do you think being a bit detached from the scene (but still part of it) helped you guys survive when so many others fell away?

Tim Burgess

Yeah, I think so. We always wanted to have our own thing. But at the same time, sometimes you don’t refuse an open door. If someone says, “Come in,” you’re not going to stand outside and sulk. So when the doors opened – whether it was Britpop, baggy, or whatever label people used – we were happy to have a wander through, but we never stayed locked inside one category. Even back in the “Madchester” days when people called us another Manchester band, we’d say, “No, we’re from Northwich.” People love categorising things, and it probably helped some other bands get picked up more easily. But we’ve always been a bit weirder than that, really.

Mark Knox

Sir! magazine just launched this year as a print magazine, and The Charlatans were around when magazines were king. For about ten years, they had the power to say what was cool and what wasn’t. Back then, how much did the press and reviews matter to you? And what’s your relationship with them like now?

Tim Burgess

I’ve always loved magazines. I’ve always related more to them than to books. My mum used to work in a paper shop in a small village. They’d only get one copy of each – one NME, one Sounds, one Melody Maker. And on a good week, maybe one Smash Hits. If a copy didn’t sell, I’d get it. I grew up on those. So when we got our first tiny mention in NME, I was like, “Oh my God, this is wild.” I’ve always loved holding magazines, reading reviews, seeing what people think. Do they matter? Yeah, a bit. You want a smooth path for your music to reach people. But if that path’s a bit rocky, you just push harder and hope the record connects in other ways. The reviews for this album have been pretty solid – a few mixed ones here and there – but overall, I think it’s coming across really well.

Mark Knox

Definitely. Thinking back to the old NME Cool List – if I asked you now to pick two or three people who would make your own Cool List, who would you choose?

Tim Burgess

Hmm. Who’s cool… okay. Gillian from New Order. Cosey Fanni Tutti. Duran Duran. Very cool.

Mark Knox

Very cool, and not what I was expecting either.

Tim Burgess

Yeah, they’ve crossed that point where if you don’t think Duran Duran are cool, you’re probably missing something. They touch on something beyond trends. David Lynch. David Bowie. David Beckham.

Mark Knox

When you’re deciding on a setlist, how do you choose what stays and what goes?

Tim Burgess

That’s one of the exciting things about the new shows: we’re actually supporting ourselves. We’ll do a 40-minute set, then come off, then come back on and do another hour or so. It gives us a chance to flex a bit. I actually asked on Twitter who people would want as The Charlatans’ support act, and loads of people said “The Charlatans”. We’ve got a lot of songs to choose from. I’d like to open the first set with “Kingdom of Ours” and open the second with “Forever”. We’ll probably always close with “Sproston Green”. After that it’s about finding a flow. There are songs that have to be there – “The Only One I Know”, “One to Another” – because when those moments arrive in the set, it just feels right. People love it. It’s great. We’re excited to play a lot of the new stuff, but we still want to honour the old.

Mark Knox

Tim, you’re an absolute style icon. My favourite looks: first, around 1996, when you were wearing that Speedo T-shirt.

Tim Burgess

Oh yeah, I love that one.

Mark Knox

If I wore that, I’d look like an out-of-shape swimming instructor. The Anorak at Knebworth — that was iconic.

Tim Burgess

I love that one too.

Mark Knox

And that sort of Andy Warhol haircut, especially when it was bleached blonde. Then when I first got into the band, around the Wonderland era, there was that Strokes-y double-denim look. Also, everyone talks about Liam Gallagher and parkas, but there was no one who wore an anorak or a parka better than you, Tim.

Tim Burgess

That’s true – I did wear them well! I kind of avoid them now because Liam’s claimed ownership of the parka.

Mark Knox

Looking back, are there eras where you think, “Yeah, I looked great”? And any where you go, “What was I thinking?”

Tim Burgess

The blonde hair was sometimes amazing and sometimes awful, like straw. But when it hung right, that dome-head cut was a look. Blonde and bowl-cut together: Spacemen 3 meets Andy Warhol meets Space. Sometimes it went a bit mad though. There’s a photo where I’m wearing a bright orange Polo Sport rugby top which is one of my favourites. Early days too – double denim, baggy jeans, baggy shirt – very loose-fit, very early Charlatans. Double denim’s underrated, I think.

Mark Knox

Your Twitter listening parties were such a lockdown highlight. Thinking back through your career, if you could have a watch party instead – to revisit one moment from your career – what would it be?

Tim Burgess

The obvious one would be the early days. I’d love to see what our expressions were like the first time we walked out on stage at the Buzz Club in Aldershot – it was 1990, not ’89 like some people think – that was such a moment. We’d been playing all over the Northwest but none of us had even heard of Aldershot. We walked out and it was rammed. There was no reason it should’ve been, really. Then we went to Southampton and played the Joiners Arms, which was also rammed. It was like, “How is this happening? We’ve only really got one song!” We looked so young.

Mark Knox

Since this is coming out around Christmas… “I Was Born on Christmas Day” – that’s an alternative Christmas classic, featuring your vocals. I’d put it alongside the Oasis “Merry Christmas Everybody” cover and the Manic Street Preachers doing “Last Christmas”. Are there any other alternative Christmas songs you’d add to that playlist?

Tim Burgess

“Last White Christmas” by Basement 5. Dennis Morris was their singer – he’s an incredible photographer who shot Bob Marley, the Sex Pistols, and the first Public Image Ltd album. I didn’t know much about Basement 5 at first, but that song blew me away. It’s just an amazing track, a fantastic alternative Christmas song. Came out around 1981, I think.

Mark Knox

Adding that to the playlist. My last question — looking at influences and the future. Who shaped you musically when you were growing up, in those early Charlatans days? And who inspires you now? Are they the same artists, or have you discovered new ones lately?

Tim Burgess

I really like MGMT. Their recent album Loss of Life was a highlight for me last year. I love that they always go their own way. And I never get bored of talking about New Order. They’ve always been a bit outside the norm. Their story before New Order – no other band has anything like it. Albums like Brotherhood, Low-Life, and Power, Corruption & Lies have this clarity; almost translucency. Between 1986 and 1990 they were the best band in the world, and a perfect alternative to the pristine pop charts of the ’80s. Bernard was the first person I saw on stage wearing a white T-shirt hanging loose from his jeans – acting like Johnny Rotten – and Gillian Gilbert was in the band, just the coolest person in the world.

Mark Knox

And one last one – when I was growing up, I read the NME and kept seeing mentions of a supergroup you were in called The Chavs. I never saw footage or heard anything – who was in that, and what was it?

Tim Burgess

That was a supergroup with me, Carl Barât, and Andy Burrows from Razorlight. Martin Duffy came along too, and we even tried to get Ronnie Wood involved. We had a little manifesto: play a pub, play a TV show, play Glastonbury, then Carnegie Hall. We only managed the first three – but there’s still time for the rest.

Mark Knox

I used to read about that constantly, back before YouTube really existed, and I was desperate to see it. All these people I loved in one band!

Tim Burgess

We did a 25-minute version of “Fairytale of New York” one Christmas.

Mark Knox

That would definitely make my alternative Christmas playlist, if it ever surfaces.